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When You're Meant To Lose

Posted By Eugene T On 7:23 AM Under , , ,
Have you ever been dealt a hand when you're predestined to lose from the get go? How do you cut or avoid losses in hands like that? The worst thing is when it happens when you're already down. It feels like a punch to the gut, and you're left wondering when it will end.

I play very regularly in a live game at a poker room where I live. Games there are generally very loose and aggressive, usually played at the $2/$5 stakes. This particular hand happened just last night on a full ring table, between 3 players, 2 of them extremely loose players (calling raises with 62o!) and another who would almost always play any two suited cards from any position (this isn't considered loose in that room!). Of the two loose players, one of them (Player A) is usually very aggressive, raising with almost any two cards while the other (Player B) plays a more passive game, only becoming aggressive after the flop. Pre-flop action was the usual limping from early position, followed by a 5xBB raise from Player A in mid position. 3 players after him folds, button calls, Player B in the small blind calls, and the big blind and initial limpers all call.

Flop came 2sTs5s, and action was checked to Player A who bet 5xBB. Button makes the call and Player B thinks then raises to 5 times the raise of Player A. With such a huge raise, it was almost certain that Player B had a made hand, at least 2 pair or better. Surprisingly, Player A and button flat calls, and the dealer dealt a 6h on the turn. Player B checks, Player A bets 20xBB (a minuscule bet compared to the pot), button calls and Player B instantly goes all in. Player A instantly calls and button goes all in immediately, flipping over the nut flush with As9s. Imagine the shock of everyone else at the table when both Player A and Player B flip over K high and J high flush! River, a 9c, was irrelevant as both players were drawing dead to the nut flush.


Imagine that! All three players flopped the flush, all three were slow playing, and all three thought the other was drawing to a flush (players in this room generally go for draws regardless of pot odds). This was the sickest cooler hand I ever saw, and I've definitely seen my share. How do you escape from losing the maximum with hands like the K high and J high flush? I remember a very similar scenario about 5 months back, of which I was on the receiving end. I had Ks9s in early position, UTG limped in, and I followed suit. A few other limpers came in as well, and the flop came three spades, no ace (I forgot the actual cards as it was such a long time ago). Blinds and UTG checks, I check, and one of the limpers made a 1/3 pot raise. UTG flat calls, and I re-raised to 4x the initial raise. Everyone else folds, including the initial raiser, but UTG calls. Turn comes another spade, and UTG checks, I bet, he goes all-in, and I knew he had the Ace, but I couldn't fold it and called. He showed pocket aces.

I think the simple "moral" of these hands would be - never play any two suited cards unless they are the nuts. Drawing to anything other than the nut flush or straight would potentially lose you a lot of money as making your hand would be tantamount to trapping yourself with the second best hand. This is why playing with any two suited cards is so dangerous. There was a similar hand that night where I also made a two hole card flush, but lost the maximum to the nut flush. This really sounds like a lot of bad poker, and it is. Embarrassing to tell, but one can only learn from such experiences.

Any of you readers have similar experiences? Let me know in the comments section. Cheers!
6 comments -
.:nicko:.
September 24, 2009 at 8:54 AM

I think in those couple of situations, one needs to have a good read on the situation. By knowing the player & his/ her possible hole cards, we'll be able to employ a clearer strategy during hands. I think one should not ever try to slow play a non-nuts flush. Even slow playing in general needs to have an aim, whether its to let your opponent catch up (but only a little bit) or to feign weakness. Slow-playing just because you think you have the best hand should be avoided IMO.

In relation to your post, I think K high or the J high flush hand could have been folded to minimise loss, especially the player on the button. That's because player B shoved followed by an insta-call by player A. There is no way J or even K high flush is good there. But as you said, being loose aggressive in nature I don't see it ever happening.

I'm still thinking if there was anyway you could have minimise the loss with the K9 hand e.g. checking on the turn as the 4th spade hit the board?... hrm.. but the play on the UTG's behalf was fairly poor because he flat-called twice on the draw-heavy board but came out on top. I guess that's the nature of FoF players.

Eugene T
September 24, 2009 at 9:27 AM

The button HAD the nuts. J high flush could possibly have folded, but not the way it played out I think. If Player B bet again on the turn, I think Player A might have shoved, and when the button calls, Player B could fold.

I couldn't check the turn with the K9. He shoved into me!

.:nicko:.
September 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM

I thought you said he check-raised you all in on the turn? But then come to think again it's difficult to check the second nuts there.

Playbook
September 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Goodness gracious, did this happen last night after I left? *shocked*

Eugene T
September 25, 2009 at 7:31 AM

Nick - Oops, you're right, I wrote that he checked-raised. If I'm not mistaken, the actual scenario was that he shoved into me, but it happened so long ago. Can't really recall the exact hand now.

Playbook - Yeah, amazing right?!

I-Solution
September 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM

I ever seen this kind of hand in Manila poker room before, 3 players flop the flushes, and the other 1 is nuts flush drawing, that was 4 ways all in!most cooler hand. 3 players slow play thier flush, and nuts flush drawing shove on the button, all called.

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